Jerusalem Watchman

Very good, very good indeed /Micael

You are saying that Israel has been called back by GOD, to be a nation in 1948. But I keep reading that it is Christ, after His return, when the people will be gathered once again to be a nation under His authority and rule. I see it as a zealous desire of the dispersed Jews to hasten the return on their own and premature to GODs plans. Help me with this one. So long as a mosque sits on the temple mount destruction of the Jews will continue,no rest, no peace. One last thought- Upon Christs’ return He will sit upon the throne of David which is separate from the temple mount. At the very end, after Christs’ thousand year reign and death is thrown into the pit, forever gone, then the heavenly Jerusalem, and GODs’ heavenly throne will descend from heaven and dwell with HIS people forever. I thank our GOD for you all. I feel so alone here with all these Christian people believing all these different interpretations.

I enjoyed reading both of you today. You both have weaknesses in your belief systems, as many outsiders (outside your discussion) are seeing. Stan, you have a somewhat wrong understanding concerning the rapture (pre), because the Christians who believe this are not forsaking Israel, neither are we. This does not by any means show a lesser love for our Brethren, Israel. I pray for Israel daily, everytime I think of her…every day. I simply believe this time of tribulation is the 70th week of Daniel. The period between the resurrection and the beginning of the Tribulation is the Church Age, the time of Grace when the Gentiles are grafted into the vine and have become, by God’s grace, a part of “Spiritual” Israel, not physical. The Lord, therefore, to our way of thinking concerning appropriate scriptures, uses the soon coming Tribulation to deal with His Israel (physical). It is not the punishment of Israel, but He will use everything (including today) from this time forward to show Himself to Israel to the point that they see who He really Is And What He is doing (The Tribulation has gaps between each seal, Trumpet Judgments and bowl…just to allow as many of the earth to come to Him…who would ever come. His will is that all come to Him, so it’s not just about Israel because there will be millions in the Tribulation, even billions at the beginning. God uses this period to draw ALL men to Him, but specifically He, even today, is miraculously using Israel in preparation for their successful and miraculous flight from the antichrist powers. I might add here that those who believe “replacement” either aren’t real Christians…or els they are ignorant of God’s speaking to Paul. We who are grafted into His Body are in love with God and His people from the depths of our heart…thus, we see the promises to meet Christ in the air…we see this not as cowardice, for I am willing to die today with Israel. I have had the Holy Spirits help in this preparation of my thinking. I will gladly die for the Kingdom of God…with Israel…if it is my calling. Please understand that Jesus calls His Church born at Pentecost, His Bride. We are to be the Bride at the Marriage Supper of The Lamb. We are not special in any other way, but we have honored Christ these 2,000 years; we have earnestly spent our time loving and living with Him…and Him alone (those who have not been honorable before the throne during the period of grace will stand before the judgment of Christ); Jesus promised through Pauls ministry and others that the Groom, Jesus, and the Bride, His Church will not just invite…but fully desire Israel and the rest of His body to be guests at His wedding. The difference?

The world who comes to Christ during the Tribulation confessed Jesus out of pressure and not because they have lived for him during the time of Grace. These born again in the tribulation have not fully and previously (though they had opportunity many times) simply have been notoriously in the world when Christ continued calling them.

I wrote this in my deepest spirit of love for you and Israel. I pray now for Israel and for the peace of Jerusalem! Tom

Well said, Stan, well said. I am blessed.
How our hearts burn within us, praying and looking for that great and glorious day when all Israel “shall know that I (Yeshua) am the LORD”!
How we long to witness that day of her revealing - before all the inhabitants of the earth - as the BELOVED of the FATHER and as the GLORY of the LORD!
Hasten that day, LORD, hasten that day!
For on that day, “the nations will see (her) righteousness, and all kings (her) glory… (She) will be a crown of splendor in the LORD’S hand, a royal diadem in the hand of (her) God… for the LORD will take delight in (her), and (her) land will be married. As a young man marries a maiden, so will (her) sons marry (her); as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will (her) God rejoice over (her).”
(Isaiah 62:2a,3,4b,5)
Hallelujah!

The model walk, and the day of Jehovah…I Thess. 5:1-24
“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the LORD so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
FOR GOD HATH NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, BUT TO OBTAIN SALVATION BY OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Wherefore COMFORT yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do…..
REJOICE EVERMORE.
PRAY WITHOUT CEASING.
IN EVERYTHING GIVE THANKS: FOR THIS IS THE WILL OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS CONCERNING YOU.
QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT.
DESPISE NOT PROPHESYINGS.
PROVE ALL THINGS; HOLD FAST THAT WHICH IS GOOD.
ABSTAIN FROM ALL APPEARANCE FO EVIL..
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ.
Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
Romans 5:9
“Much more then, being now Justified by his blood, we shall be SAVED FROM WRATH THROUGH HIM.”
This is crystal clear to me that those who live in the light shall not suffer God’s wrath which is coming on the whole world. Salvation in Christ Jesus, period.

for this is the will of god in christ jesus

Thank you Stan,
Only two points I would like to mention.
STAN: I see this as very possibly being an alliance of forces under Russia’s overall direction but including Iran and the other nations listed in Ezekiel 38. What I also see is that in the very act of this supernatural destruction of the Russian-led alliance, or perhaps soon afterwards, the Jews as a nation will witness the great work which the Lord their God does in fighting for them, and “then they shall know that I am the LORD

The fact that Egypt and Syria are not mentioned in this confederation of nations which soon come against Israel leads me to believe that Israel will have removed them as a threat before the Ezekiel 38 war.
We could be very close to this war.

This whole tribulation should be put in it’s proper context .
It is the Day of the Lord which brings so much tribulation upon the earth.

The wrath of God is against the nations for their wickedness but especially for how they are now dealing with Israel.

Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD [is] at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for [it is] nigh at hand;
Oba 1:15 For the day of the LORD [is] near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
Zep 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD’S anger
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Jeremiah 51;20 tells us that Israel is God’s war club ,His weapon of war.
Israel is the hook which will draw the nations into His trap .
With you I shatter nation’s ,and with you I destroy kingdoms.
So israel has a pivotal part to play at this time and the Church which like Ruth stood with Israel will see all of this.
The Church which does not stand with Israel will fade away and die,forever forgotten .

Honestly, I am just not intelligent enough to understand it all. The only thing that I know is that I am saved by accepting Jesus Christ as my savior and Lord. I am headed for Heaven, when God calls me home. All the rest I leave in His hands, trusting fully that His work and way will be completed exactly as He has planned it from the foundation of the earth. I know that I love Him and He loves me. He has forgiven me of my sins, and I am living every day for Him. This is enough for me. I love Israel and His Chosen People. They are in my prayers daily. I will one day join them in Jerusalem. Hallelujah!

I leave all the rest to those who have greater wisdom and understanding than I have been privileged to be given by my Heavenly Father.

Jeanette,
“This is crystal clear to me that those who live in the light shall not suffer God’s wrath which is coming on the whole world. Salvation in Christ Jesus, period.”
When the supernatural judgments of God were upon Egypt,,Israel was not under His wrath in Goshen.
Those who had the blood of the Lamb on the doorrposts and threshold of their hearts were protected from the wrath of God as we will be.
The death angel ,wrath of God PASSED OVER the righteous in Egypt.
God has marked His people already just as Satan plans to mark all of those who will recieve his earthly authority, mark of the beast.
The wrath of man is another issue as Daniel to Jesus clearly tell us beforehand that they will deliver us up and kill many of us.
Stephen ,the first martyr should be read and re read and kept in our hearts and not ignored as the darkness falls upon this earth. It will strengthen us unlike the false early escape teaching which will leave too many unprepared.
Marsha ,
God does not want us to be in the dark ,Seek and you shall find.
My people die because of ignorance.
Those who are not sure and confused need to seek and search and get or they will be decieved in this day when Jesus warned ,”
if it wrre possible ,the very elect would be decieved”

Shalom Stan,

I agree with almost all of your post. Concerning Zechariah’s prophesy in 13: 8, I hope that you are right when you say that it has already been fulfilled. In the great book Isaiah there are many places where it is very hard for me to distinguish if the prophet is talking about soon to be fulfilled post Babylon prophesy or end time prophesy. He seems to drift in and out of time frames. Sometimes it appears to be what I call dual prophesy. This occurrence is difficult for me because I seem to like everything wrapped up in a nice tidy package. However, since this is the way it is, I accept it and pray for wisdom to understand it. But I don’t see this same occurrence in Zechariah 12-14. Beginning at Zechariah 12:3 the prophet uses the phrase “in that day” 9 times before verse 13:8 It seems obvious to me that “that day” is the Day of the Lord. Then after 13:8 he uses the same phrase 5 more times tying together all of Chapters 12, 13 and up to at least verse 15 in chapter 14 as being the same day. I just don’t see where time frames are switched. Reading through 12 to 14 it has never occurred to me that this was not all end time prophesy. With that said I will admit that I am no Bible scholar, so I may be wrong. Please help me with some supporting scripture for your belief. Please know that I am not trying to offend you or Israel. I want salvation for all people , jew and gentile and my love for Israel is in no way diminished because I hold this view. Again, 1 out of 3, no other country, nation or people on the planet will have such a large percentage of saved people. In either case I see Israel blessed beyond measure. In Love and the Hope of all the world.

Shalom, Jeremy

All things are Thy servants.
Marcel, you say “the wrath of man is another issue…” Based on the Bible verses below, I must respectfully disagree with you.
Ps. 119:89-91 “Forever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven. Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth. They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.”
Ps. 76.10 “Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.” The wrath of man is a wrong thing, and yet even man’s wrath becomes God’s servant and will accomplish His purposes and bring Him Praise.
Jeremiah 51:20-23 “Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms; And with thee will I break in pieces the horse and his rider; and with thee will I break in pieces the chariot and his rider; With thee also will I break in pieces man and woman; with with thee will I break in pieces old and young; and with thee will I break in pieces the young man and the maid; I will also break in pieces with thee the shepherd and his flock; and with thee will I break in pieces the husbandman and his yoke of oxen; and with thee will I break in pieces captains and rulers.” While God does not inaugurate evil in order to accomplish His will, He adopts it to “fulfill His word”.
The evil done to young Joseph by his brothers ended up being used by God as His servants to accomplish His will. See Gen. 45:4-8, 50:19,20 “But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.”
Proverbs 21:1 “The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: He turneth it whithersoever He will.”
Isaiah 45:5-7 “I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known Me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the LORD do all these things. (Evil in the sense of wretchedness, adversity, afflictions, calamities, sorrow, suffering as the sure fruits of sin.)
Daniel says in 7:27 “And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.”
Concerning the words of Jesus in Matt.24:9 “Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.” That is the course of this age we are living in from the time Jesus left this earth in the clouds. Yes, Stephen was martyred, and so were many others all down the corridors of these 2000 years of time. Try reading Fox’s Book of Martyrs. Very horrible things have been done to followers of Jesus Christ, and still are being done today. There are people being persecuted and killed today for their faith in Jesus Chrsit. It may be some day you or me.
The gathering will take place, we know not the precise time or day, or hour.There are clues in Luke 17:26-37. The thing we should be doing, I believe, is practicing total and absolute surrender toGod’s will as He reveals it to us. To watch and pray, to love God and our fellow man and woman, and child. To be detached from this material and corrupt world, so that when that trumpet sounds, we will not hesitate to leave this earth and join our King in the clouds, to “meet the LORD in the air”. Peace and Blessings on all.

Thanks for the “thumpin” Marcel….I needed it!!!

Jeanette,
I do agree with what you wrote.
Escape is the chief product sold to the church while suffering is hard to market to the flesh of carnal christian’s.
This is the crux of the problem .
God’s wrath is not on His saints but on the wicked,The wicked will persecute the saiints of God.
This is ignored by the lukeawrm church as a false early escape is taught in place of the whole consel of God
They ignore the whole message of Jesus and embrace only the easy. comforting half of the gospel.
Half the truth will not get us thru this approaching hour.
The five virgins are low on oil and don’t even know it.They won’t until they awaken and they will awaken too late. Thats the warning of the 10 virgins message Jesus taught which is not being taught today.
It’s bee replaced by a feel good easy escape lie.
How do they reconcile the verse below with their early escape rapture ?
Are these the grade B late saints who deserve to suffer while the grade A saints are in heaven.
It’s sad that so many fall so easliy for this confused deception which will elave them shaken in faith when Daniel’s word come to pass upon them. .

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Great post, Stan and I agree with you Marcel. Paul prophesied about people desiring to hear what would please them and not being able to with stand sound doctrine.

Please, no matter if you believe in a pre-7 year rapture or not, simply read the Bible. Do not trust what men tell you. As the time of Jesus’ return draws closer we will need the solid foundation of Jesus and His Word. Again, I say, do not trust what men tell you. Read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into revelation and understanding. Study the Word with a pure heart. Do not study to prove someone right or wrong, but to learn the truth. Read what Jesus, Paul, John, and the prophets had to say about the end times and let the Spirit reveal the truth to you in God’s Word. I love the truth. Jesus said that He is the Truth.

Stan:
Thank you again for your clear thoughts, well spoken, and soundly presented. Be blessed, you have spoken the truth in love.
Dawn

Like you, I come to this same “table” of feasting on God’s Word, shocked that so many Christians are still being taught to think that Israel must endure yet another holocaust. This puzzles me because as I understand the NT, it tells us that a partial blindness has fallen upon Israel in order for gentiles to be grafted in to the Commonwealth of Israel. For the grafted in branches, the Christians, to boast and believe they are superior to the root, Israel , is unthinkable, yet this kind of thinking continues even to this day. How many holocausts must their be BEFORE this Christian God relents and ends the suffering which to all intents and purposes has only occured because He has permitted a blindness to occur. When will He remove and cause this blindness to be lifted because He does say it is suppose to be only temporary, doesn’t He?

Can you show me from the scriptures where you learn that God has said Israel would experience only three exiles and returns? Where does it say that their most recent exile and return is to be their last? I have read Amos 9:11-15 and see that this final return is permanent. How do we know that this last and most return which seems to coincide with Israel becoming a nation in 1948 is to the last? It would be so nice to see from scripture that there are no more holocausts awaiting Israel.

World events will unfold so rapidly that the day will come, much sooner than we all think — I say this noting the rising influence of the Alliance of Civilisations — where the only place in the world where Christians can continue to hold to the practice of their faith will be in Israel. In those days, we will affirm, as you predict, just as Ruth did in ancient days, ” Where you go, there we will go; where you stay, there we will stay; your people will be our people, and your God will be our God. ”

I have always marvelled at this verse from Jeremiah 16:16 :
“Behold I am going to send for many fishermen,” declares the LORD, “and they will fish for them; and afterwards I shall send for many hunters, and they will hunt them from every mountain and every hill, and from the clefts of the rocks.”

As a Christian I knew the early disciples were called “fishers of men” and so I was very glad that I was restored to a right relationship with God through fishing mostly because I didn’t want to be hunted out. I thought this way mostly because I believed Christians and Israel were two completely different entities. Recently howelver, I have read of a teaching which says there is scriptural evidence that there are two “kinds” of believers: the bride and of course, the wedding guests. Notice, both are saved.

To be completely honest, the main reason I was glad I was a Christian was because I was taught by my teachers and leaders that Israel would experience God’s anger and was to be punished for having rejected the Messiah Yeshua. They also taught me that as a believing Christian I’d escape the coming tribulation because He’d find a way to remove me from the earth before everything fell apart.

I have explained all of this so that you can see why I never thought for a second that this scripture about the hunters being sent would apply to me! Now, after much study and prayer, I see like you, that one day, Judah and all of Israel will be united into “one stick” in much the same way Joseph was reunited with his brothers and father. I read how one day no one will talk about how they left Egypt but instead will talk about how God gathered His people from the four corners of the earth and how He was able to unite this people as one people.

I do believe there is most certainly coming a time of judgment upon the entire world. However, I also see that the true believers will not endure the wrath of God. I watch with trepidation how Israel is signing up for the European Neighborhood Policy noting it is a 7 year covenant. Is this THEE “covenant with many” about which Daniel spoke of in Chapter 9 :27 where he says, ” And he will make firm a covenant with the many for one week.” I don’t know for sure yet, but most certainly, if it isn’t THEE covenant Daniel spoke it about, it is without a doubt, a forerunner of it.

I don’t honestly know how it will come about that God will protect and keep His own people during the End Times. But, I do know when the judgments were heaped upon Egypt, the Israelites were spared from experiencing the worst of them. As long as the people of Israel followed God’s instructions, they were safe. When these dark and terrible times fall upon this world, I trust my God will be able to keep me out of harms way, safe and protected in the same way He kept the people of Israel when they left Egypt. After all, in John’s Revelation I read about a “woman” who is flown into a wilderness place where she is nourished for 3 1/2 years.

Now that I can see how this verse from Jeremiah might also apply to me, I can’t help but wonder if today’s jihadists are simply another version of yesterday’s hunters. After all, hunters ’sort of flush out ‘ their prey, don’t they ? I believe the day is coming whereby we’ll be driven out from our various countries, homes and lands rather than renounce our faith in our God. Unfortunately, we are still a long way from seeing that those who hate the people of Israel and hate their God, do also without a doubt, hate us and hate our God. It is such a terrible shame because we do indeed worship the same God. Some day, you are so right to predict that we will stand with Israel and witness the marvelous salvation of our LORD because to all intents and purposes at this time we will be One Israel.

Stan you said, ” Yeshua said that period of great tribulation for Israel as a nation would last “until” Jerusalem was no longer trodden down by gentiles. That is to say, the restoration of Jerusalem to Jewish sovereignty signaled that the “great tribulation” for the Jews had reached its end. ”

This “time period” which Jesus speaks about whereby Jerusalem would no longer be trodden down by gentiles, has it actually come about ? Because if it has I am confused because I see that the UN has ruled that Jerusalem doesn’t belong to Israel, yet. As I recall when Israel recapture the city did they “return” most of it back into the hands of the Arabs in l967?

So, the question I ask, has the period when Jerusalem would be trodden down by the gentiles ended? If it’s ended, then does that also mean the time of the gentiles, or the in gathering of the gentiles has also drawn to a close?

Jesus (Yeshua) said in Matt.24:34, ” This generation will by no means pass away until all these things take place.” There seems to be alot of confusion about how long “this generation” would be. Is a generation 40 or 70 years ? Do we mark off time periods from 1948 or from 1967 ? The author at the website whose address I’ve posted at the end of this email, says the “window” of time preceeding the Return of Yeshua could run anywhere from 2018 and 2037. I am of the opinion that we need to be watching what happens between a particular 7 year period from 2007 and 2014 very carefully. Without a doubt, much can happen even within 31/2 years, never mind 7 years.

Having said all this, I also need to also say that I totally agree with your statement when you say “ …. it may take some time, but I believe God is working to prepare the hearts of millions of Christians to come alongside you, to stand with Israel to the end.”

Lastly, would you be able to clarify something for me? Does God’s word say, we cannot be united and one with Israel until we are ALL restored to the land. Or, is it the other way round. Do we first need to become as One before He can relocate us ALL back to the land?

However, it all unfolds most certainly, since it’s his intention to fulfill ALL of his word, it’s also very clear that eventually, all of us together will be united as one. We’ll be relocated to live in the closest thing to heaven on earth, within Israel , because this will become the only place in the world where we’ll be permitted to worship the one true God. Now, the next and final question which is begging to be asked is, will there be enough room to contain us all?

Blessings and many thanks for your writing and your hard work.

PS
May I recommend that all of us who love Israel, the people and the land, that we continue to pray Psalm 83 ?

Viewing a moving presentation on Israel and Psalm 83:
http://www.acwitness.org/psalm83english.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To see this author Jack Kelley’s treatment of the End Times see Item # 2 which is entitled ” Jerusalem Will Be In Jewish Hands” posted at this website:

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/seven-major-prophetic-signs-of-the-second-coming

Here the author,Jack Kelley, says, ” …the Lord didn’t promise that all end times prophecies would be fulfilled within a generation of their beginning, only that the generation being born at the time of the first of the signs would still be alive to see their completion. According to Psalm 90:10 a Biblical life span is 70 years, so predicting the approximate time of the End requires the addition of 70 years to either 1948 or 1967, not 40. ….There are good arguments in favor of either date, so the safest bet is to construct a window of time opening in 2018 and extending to 2037 for the fulfillment of all End Time Prophecies. ” ( End Quote)
If you take these observations at face value, you would not be looking forward to the Return of the LORD until somewhere between the years 2018 and 2037! Without a doubt, at the present pace of today’s world events, ALOT can happen between 2018 and 2037!

Hello:

“The Church which does not stand with Israel will fade away and die, forever forgotten. ”

Matthew 16:18: (Yeshua speaking) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

There may be persons appearing to be members of the Church, but are not, claiming to be part of the body of Christ, and are not. Those who are not of teh body are removed from the body, but the body remains in Jesus Christ. It is still not shown here where the Church is mentioned to be on the earth during the Revelation after the last mention in Chapter 3.

Also Matthew, where do these come from, the Church, or Israel? 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other.

Is not Israel the “wife of God?” Are the gentiles who accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord grafted into the vine (the Jewish family by adoption) because Jesus is God’s Son….Jesus who is after all a Jewish Rabbi?

This is what I believe….How could the Most High God not love Israel above all others….it would be impossible…..God in His word gives very specific instructions as to how a husband is to treat his wife…..His instructions are full of love, tenderness, kindness, mercy and as provider.

If the Jewish people are the wife of God, then how could they not find special favor in every circumstance of life?

God has covered them and protected them throughout history, even in the midst of persecution and anti-semitism. The Jewish People, His Chosen People, will Always be first, and find favor and God’s most special and tender mercies throughout the ages of time.

They have survived every attack of the enemy from the beginning until present….Even those who have gone on are now with Him, I believe. Israel is God’s wife…..all others (me included) are a part of a different parts of God’s beloved ones.

Shalom A. Harrison

I believe I can partially answer your questions about the exiles and how we know that 1948 regathering is the last as per Amos 9 . Firstly we know there have been 3 or 4 exiles of Israel depending on how you look at it .Firstly all Israel were exiled to Egypt for 430 years and returned with Moses . Secondly the Northern tribes (Israel) were dispersed worldwide by Assyria , the last of them during the reign of Hoshea in about 723 to 722 BC . Thirdly Judah to Babylon for 70 years starting in approx. 598 BC and ending with the fall of Jerusalem in 586 BC , and lastly (3rd or 4th ) the worldwide exile by Rome in 70 AD . Some count the Assyrian and Babylonian dispersions as one since they were realitively close to one another and represented the same period of apostacy .The number of exiles is not important as I see it.

Now we know that the gathering beginning in 1948 is the final gathering by prophesy. Grant Jeffery, in a book he wrote, showed how a little known prophesy in Ezekiel points exactly to May 14, 1948 as the date. In Ezekiel Chapter 4 verses 4 thru 6 Ezekiel, already in captivity in Babylon was ordered by God to:

” Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity. For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Now interesting enough 390 days/years plus 40 equals 430 or the exact number of years to the exact day that Israel was in Egypt. Now also we know that the post Babylon regathering happened after 70 years in exile. Not all the Jews returned to Israel, many, perhaps the majority ,remained in sin in Babylon. In Leviticus chapter 26, as Isreal was headed for the promised land ,God warned them about disobedience: In verse 13 to 17 He warned,

“I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright. But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.”

This was fulfilled in the Assyrian / Babylonian conquests/exiles.

Now comes another warning in verse 18…. “And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. ”

Now since many did not return in faith to Jerusalem but remained in Babylon God, God , good to His word, punished them 7 times more. If we take 70 years( for the 70 years in Babylon) off of the 430 years that Ezekiel layed on his left and right side for, that equals 360 years. And 360 years times 7( from Leviticus 26:18 ) equals 2,520 years. Since Jewish years are 360 rather than 365 we take those 2520 Jewish years, translated into modern years ,and go from the Babylonian exile it comes out to exactly May 14, 1948 as the end of their punishment. Is God awsome or what? Make no mistake we are in the endtimes. God bless you

Shalom Jeremy

Hey Jeremy
May God Bless You keep on keeping on that more and more answer’s to the last day’s Prophecy’s will come to light. To many people don’t understand what is about to unfold here in this world. Keep looking up Jesus Is Coming Soon!!!!!!
Praying For The Peace Of Jerusalem

Hi Jeremy
I have heard a pastor speaking about those bible passages before but had almost forgotten, glad to read it, and yes it is powerful

Is there any merit to the thought that the exact location of the original Temple was 30 meters south of the current Dome ? Could the 2 exist similtaniously. No one mentions China here. Who else can field an army of 3 million? Some are now declaring themselves pre-wrath rather than pretrib, interesing concept. Isn’t it true that there has always been only a remnant, small number, of people that believed at any time in Biblical history, Somewhere in the neighborhood of 10%. Why shoud this time be any different. When 90 % percent of the church is in agreement, it is time to look deeper into what God is sayin, cause the 90% has never been right yet . Curious men have always tried to put God’s word into their current context, but typically they were off a bit till God revealed what was really happening. Do you think it possible that His return will coincide with the Festival of Shelters in some future year. Seems to me that all the other festivals have been recreated in events surrounding Israel and the Jewish people. To say that rapture or no rapture is true or false is wishful thinking at best. There is precedence for delivery of a remnant, specially in the story of Lot. I will celebrate each day spent on this side of the grass, trusting the thread of God through history to put me where I am supposed to be. Here , there, of little improtance to me. This life I gladly forfit for eternity at HIS FEET

To all:

Well spoken is the admonition to read the Scripture, and let the Holy Spirit minister the truth contained therein.

In the parable of the ten virgins, there is the specification of having or not having oil to trim the lamps.

We know from Biblical study that oil in the allegorical sense is representative of the Holy Spirit. Thus, when there is anointing with oil, in faith there is representation of the empowering of the Holy Spirit. True believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the time of accepting Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior. Thus, those such as the five virgins who believe and have their salvation, have the oil.

In the converse situation, the five who did not have oil, did not have salvation. And since it cannot be bought, it is futility to think one can, at the last moment, get some before it is too late.

The nominal Christian church today has believers, and non-believers. Believers are part of the Body of Christ, the true Church. Non-believers, thinking that by attending some church assembly, whether religiously or not to gain some spiritual credit, are not part of the Body of Christ.

When Christ comes for the Bride, the true Church, only those in the nominal church who have their salvation (the five who have their oil), get the call to meet Him in the air as part of the true Church. They are going to the marriage supper of the lamb. Those in the nominal church who do not have their salvation, are not called at this time, for they do not have the oil.

It is all about belief. Those who believe are called to exercise faith in Him who calls for them. Those without faith cannot, will not answer the call.

Israel is not the Church, nor is it part of the nominal church, regardless what the Roman Catholic church or other denomination may allege in order to internationalize Jerusalem. But, there are those of Abraham’s seed that are part of the Body of Christ, having not only their heritage, but salvation in their LORD Yeshua. Yet, further, there are those of the Jewish heritage that do not have a saving knowledge of Yeshua, and while being children of Israel, are not part of the Body of Christ.

It is a debate of semantics that caused the label of holocaust to be applied to the tribulation. It was a terrible hateful time by any label time then, but it is past. Yet Scripture says, there is to be a time of “Jacob’s trouble during the tribulation, but it is the unredeemable world that is being brought to the Middle East for judgment’s sake. That there will be loss of life amongst the people of Israel is given. That it is to be on the order of the terrible times of Nazi Germany remains to be seen. Pray to the LORD that it is not to be so.

In the initial sequence of the tribulation, there will be no believers. The tribulation will be for unbelievers to face the terrors of their unbelief. There will be those who will go through this, and in terrified repentance, be delivered of their souls, but their bodies are delivered to the death for their late-in-coming faith. Those already in heaven are told to wait for those yet to be killed during this time.

In the end, whether Old Covenant (looking forward to the cross and being justified), or New Covenant (looking at the historical cross and being justified), whether prior to the tribulation, or after, no one, absolutely no one, whether in Israel or abroad, gets into heaven without the righteousness of Messiah’s covering, the holy linen apparel of a saint.

Believe in the LORD Jesus Christ and be saved.

Jeremy, I enjoyed your proof on the prophecy that foretold 1948–however I don’t understand why the 70 years of Babylonian captivity are subtracted from the 430 years that Ezekiel layed on his side. Can you explain that more for me?

1. It’s not semantics to say that the Holocaust was the time of tribulation which, by the way, I did not say. When Jesus spoke about the time of “great tribulation” He was talking about something that would happen to the JEWISH people, beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem and ending with the return of the Jews to Jerusalem. Thirty -four years or so after His ascension Rome surrounded Jerusalem, inflicted genocidal war on the Jews so that the Mediterranean ran red with their bood, destroyed the Temple, and drove the one third that survived out of the land and into exile. The sword followed them and wherever they went they were persecuted, rejected, driven out and killed. There was indeed no place for them to find rest for their feet.

2. The time of Jacob’s truble, according to Jeremiah, would PRECEDE the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel. And this fits perfectly with what Jesus said, that their return home and to Jerusalem would signal that that time of their suffering as a nation was at last coming to an end.

Jacob has had nothing BUT trouble for 2000 years. That time of trouble culminated in the Holocaust. The Holocaust prededed the rebirth of the Jewish national home and it is absolutey true to state that without that Holocaust there would never have been a new State of Israel.

The number of scriptures promising the Jews that their return to the land of Israel will mark the beginning of a time of favor and blessing leaves no doubt that this is so. Only the warped “Christian” teaching that condemned the Jews for killing Jesus and so “justified” their wandering and their brutal treatment at the hands of the church could drown out the message of promise and keep insisting that the Jews would have to keep suffering until they accept Jesus. This is NOT the Gospel.

God has brought the Jews home to do them good; to be reunited with them. The time HE set to favor Zion has come. And our place is not to stand across the ocean and continue warning them that they are going through another holocaus because they will not convert to Christianity. Our place, our calling, the command we have from Heaven, is to come alongside them, to comfort them, and to tell them that that their warfare is ended, for they have ALREADY received from the Lord’s hand double for all their sins!

Well said M. Tovey
The Bible say’s that unless we are Born Again we can not enter the Kindgom of Heaven, He who has the Son Has Life He who has not the Son shall not see life for God’s wrath remain’s upon him, where is that Salaviton found only through the Son, Who is the Son Jesus Christ ….. Act’s4: 8-12 {12} {John 3 : 36} { John 14-6}According to the Bible no one can enter Heaven without the Son. Jesus dosen’t say only the Jew’s or only the gentile’s he say’s no one!!!!!! During that terrible time called the Tribulation Jew & Gentile alike are going to go through such horrible time’s as the world has never seen and unless those day’s be shortened none would be able to survive. There are Jew’s & Gentile’s alike that are preaching Repentance, That we must be Born Again John 3:3- 3:5 Jesus dosen’t repeat himself but 2 or 3 time’s nor does he need to his word’s are Final & His Judgement’s are Just…….. { We ALL have God’s word On It } His Holy City of Jerusalem is going to be the center of Trouble’s in this the last day’s he say’s he is going to bring ALL Nation’s to come up against Her…….. It dosen’t matter if you are Jew or Gentile living in Israel or in the world………there is going to be alot of blood shed for it to run as deep as a horse’s bridle and uncountable number of human’s are going to die when this all take’s place…. Here again we Have God’s Word on it….
Thankyou Jesus…… for making a way that if we are Born Again and Living for you Jesus. We Shall Be Saved from the wrath to come……….1 Thess. 4: 16-18
Praying For The Peace Of Jerusalem

Hello,

M Tovey, though I do not believe as you do about the Church (or true believers) beling carried away from the time of trouble that will come upon all the earth, I do understand much of the reasoning behind such a belief.

However, you made the point that those in heaven being told to wait for the others to join them. I would ask that you re-read the verse in Revelation. First, the fact that the first resurrection must happen before we are caught up into the air to meet our Jesus, precludes there being two sets of Saints. If there are people who are or become Saints after the “rapture”, then they would not have the opportunity to participate in the first resurrection and they can not be Saint’s if they are not part of the first resurrection. You see it? The pre-tribulation rapture just doesn’t make sense from so many view points.

The blood that cries out to God and God tells to wait are the Saints slain for the sake of the Gospel. This is referring to the blood speaking to God just as Abel’s blood cried out to God. Please, just re-read 1st and 2nd Thess and Revelation (esp Rev. 20).

May Jesus Keep You All,
Jamie

Shalom Nathan,

I’ m not really sure, But I an sure Grant Jeffery could give you a better explanation since it was he that brought this into the light. I am just repeating what I read in his book (borrowed) quite some time ago. I Nevertheless I will give it a try here .

God punished the Jews for 70 years as per the prophet Jeremiah for their
disobedience….

And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. Jeremiah 25:11

This was their sentence and I believe each year represents a sabbath year that the land was not allowed to rest (possibly during the period of the Judges or a cumulative total since Joshua’s time) as commanded by God in Exodus & Leviticus….

And six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof: But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: Exodus 23:10-11

But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard. Leviticus 25:4

So I believe that God kept track of their disobedience and Israel owed Him 70 sabbath years of rest for the land.

Regardless if I am right or not about why , the punishment was in fact 70 years . So they were punished as per the word of the Lord and following some of them returned as per Jeremiah 29:10

For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place. (Jerusalem)

70 years was their original punishment . Since they had already been punished 70 years it was subtracted from their punishment of the 430 years that God commanded in Ezekiel 4:4-6. God being just and merciful apparently gave them credit for time served. Isn’t it just like our God to use the same numbers like 430, 70, seven and etc. over and over again? God’s wisdom with numbers is mysteriuos and delightful! So they still had 360 years to do and that was multiplied by 7, per Leviticus 26 , as furthur punishment for unbelief . That’s the best I can do . One thing is for sure ,May 14th 1948 was determined by God to be the final regathering. And so of course indeed it is!

God bless you! Shalom Jeremy

Jeremy, Really enjoyed what you had to say. Wanted to know if I could ask you a few questions without doing it on this post. I feel a kindred spirit with you and I believe most of what you say is from the Lord. I would appreciate it if you would e-mail me at big_chad@hotmail.com
Look forward to hearing from you bro.
While I’m hereI might as well leave a few comments. A few things I’ve noticed of late. If we are in fact going to be raptured out before the trib why would the Lord give us the “Revelation of Jesus?” I mean if we are not going to be here why would we be given such exact events about the end??
Revelation 22:17 says, “The Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come!’ and let him who hears say, ‘come!’…” The bride is obvioulsy the church, the elect lady (2 John 1), Paul tells us that the church is the bride in Ephesians 5:22-33…v32 “This is a profound mystery - but I am talking about Christ and the church.” But if we are in heaven because we were raptured out then how can we be crying out with the Holy Spirit “COME!”?
Now just a few thoughts about Matt 24. If we are going to be raptured before why would Jesus say such things as, “…he who stands firm to the end will be saved…but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened…See, I have told you ahead of time…Immediately after the distress of those days…” He says, “See, I have told you ahead of time” Now why would he say that if we are not going to be there? Do you really think he is saying that to lost people? To the jews?? None of what Jesus says even matters if you think you wont be around during the tribulation. You can cut out the Revelation of Jesus as well if you think you won’t be here.

Last thing I will say is this. Anyone reading this who seriously holds to a pre-trib rapture I want you to show me where it says you will be raptured out using only Matthew 24:1-35. In those 35 verses Jesus gives us a very in depth description of the end of the age and the sign of his return so you would think that somewhere within those scriptures he would mention how we are not going to be here. Please just show me where it says that. Or if it doesn’t say it then show me within those 35 verses where you think you are going to be raptured out. Between what events? Seriously, I want to know.

Shalom Nathan and all,

Last night as I was posting the above I could not remember the scripture to back up my belief about the 70 sabbaths . This morning God led me to it in my daily reading. Here it is.

ll Cron. 36:20 and 21 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia: To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

Shalom Jeremy

Several good comments. I don’t agree with most that was said but they were well thought out.

Everyone please read. THIS IS IMPORTANT. Expressly for “Big Chad”.

Big chad;
I read your notation on Stan Goodenough’s page. I may be able to help some way. I have studied the end time for decades, and am familiar with other fundamental doctrines concerning the same.

1. The Revelation of Jesus: Jesus wants every Christian, the entire Church (the Bride of Christ), to read and be familiar with the book of Revelation. Remember when Jesus was on earth and taught the disciples along with the Scribes and Pharisees, Sadducees, etc.? Though the Sanhedrin Government (Jewish Government who did not want to give up their jobs as Priests, etc., because that was their livlihood. They came against Jesus because He was a threat to them) would be around when Jesus taught, it was only to trap Him, but never were successful. Once, Jesus was teaching radically, saying words to this effect. “You whitewashed (on the outside) scumbags. You look beautiful on the outside, but are filthy on the inside.” Jesus told them several times they were foolish because they could not decipher the “times”. They could tell weather changes fine, but when it came to the endtime, or signs thereof, they were ignorant. He would get fiery angry at the phony teachings of the Pharisees, etc., and that was one of the points He worked on. He wanted the brand new Church from the days of Pentecost, to “know how to discern the times”. He did not want His Church ignorant of the things written in the Old Testament concerning the end times, such as Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Amos, for a few. Why did you not wonder why the Holy Spirit taught the end time back prior to the Church age? I’ll tell you why Jesus wants His Church (Bride) to understand prophecy. It’s because we are His ministries on this earth and we should be strongly teaching the people what’s coming – so we will be prepared for that trouble facing Jacob (Israel); He wants us, the Church to continue in intercessory prayer for Israel and the Peace of Jerusalem. Without Israel, and the Church UNITED, the Gentiles would not exist. Chat. I hope you understand better why the Church must understand the end times…especially since we have already entered a place we cannot get past without walking fully in His Spirit. I am joyful when I see how the Church of Jesus Christ is appointed to continue the works Jesus left her…and that’s the destruction of the works of the devil…by winning thousands upon thousands of souls to His Kingdom every day!.

2. “How will we cry out to the Spirit, Come!”, if we are already in Heaven? Chad, we the church of Jesus are already so homesick to be with Jesus that we must already call out “Even so, come, Lord Jesus!” Are you ready to go now? Will you be ready to go tomorrow? That’s the point. Even as John, who received the Revelation from Jesus, felt the glory of the Lord in victory over the enemy…so should you and I, the Church, be calling for His quick return! Besides, we must be faithful in praying for Israel, and the Peace of Jerusalem! If we don’t realize where and who we are in Christ Jesus…and Who He is in us, then how can we, as His precious, anointed Bride, ever complete the Commission He Himself gave us…Yes! Jesus was calling the Church to be the administrators of the Great Commission. We are responsible today to the bringing into the Kingdom…all men who will come.

3. Chad, Matthew 24 is mostly about the Tribulation, and MOSTLY has little to do with the rapture. The Bible is clear that when Jesus “meets us in the air”, and we do not know exactly when He will come, is the part that deals with the rapture of the Church. You must look elsewhere, such as Thessalonians to find the purest revelation to Paul concerning the Rapture. Now, we don’t know when the rapture will be, but If you see how God always protected His own in the OT, and know what He says in the NT, it’s easy to see how God did NOT appoint to the Church, the Tribulation period…which is to be, by far the most horrendous period ever to hit the earth.

Ok, many are already dying for the sake of Christ and have been since the early Church. Many use this fact to deny Christ’s taking out the Church. But, what they do not realize is that…even in the Tribulation, there are millions (a number man cannot count) who will come to the Lord. You see, though the Trib is horrendous, God leaves a space of time between every seal, trumpet and bowl judgments…to allow more to come to Him. That’s the reason He appointed 144,000 spectacularly righteous Jews (Israelites) to minister to the world during that time. God has appointed the Jews a place in the Trib, but not to punish. He’s doing that to show them Who He really Is. That’s why God, In the Old Test. Promised to bring all of Israel to Him out of the Trib. That’s the reason God miraculously protects them when Russian and other Eastern nations come agains Israel. God will destroy all the (about 2/3’s) enemy of His people. Then, don’t forget His love and care for Israel causes Him to supernaturally protect them. Yes! Jesus protects all Israel supernaturally the times of HIS OWN wrate – the final 3 ½ years of the Tribulation – just as He protected Israel many times in the OT. He supernaturally will cause Israel to “see” Who He is, and fall on their faces before Him.

Listen, Chad. Many will die in the Tribulation. But read Rev 12:11 and see that the death of His Children is truly precious in His sight. In closing, Jesus will honor all who give their lives for His sake. He wants you and I to receive the Revelation because we must learn through walking in the Spirit of God, how to prepare to give our very lives for Him.

So, do we, the Church, feel better than others? No. We are preparing to die for Him – but not in the tribulation – the time of the “wrath of God”. He would never cause His own – the Church or Israel – to be “punished” in the Tribulation.

4. Finally, What’s the difference between the bride (Church) and those millions upon millions who are saved in the Tribulation? The Bride have honorably served Christ for centuries because they were supernaturally drawn by the Holy Spirit; because they chose to suffer for His name sake; because they are drawn to endure to the end (the end thus far for the Christian is “death” in Him, whether or not as martyrs). Jesus knows that the death of a believer is “precious”. We have never rejected Christ; we have believed on Him through the precious ‘blood’ of Christ; we have believed fully by faith…and will endure to the end. We are His Bride..and no one on this green earth can deny this!. God is not punishing Israel…but the evil kings and filth of this world.

No one can deny my love for Israel! NO ONE CAN DENY MY LOVE FOR GOD’S PRECIOUS PEOPLE. I understand what God is doing…because I have been assigned to read and somewhat understand what He gave the Church through John the Revelator!!

God Bless you
Tom Stephens
http://www.christsbondservants.com

Tom, thank you for taking the time to respond to my comments. I do agree with your words pertaining to the fact that we should be homesick and crying out even now “Come, Lord, Come!” I confess and admit I seriously lack this in my life. I pray the Lord would turn my eyes away from worthless things, and turn my heart fully to Him. And I do believe He is doing this for me day by day. Clearing the ground in my heart, removing the thorns and the stones day by day.
Now as to your 3rd point I have a serious problem with your words. You said, “Matthew 24 is mostly about the Tribulation, and MOSTLY has little to do with the rapture…You must look elsewhere, such as Thessalonians to find the purest revelation.”
I have much to say about this statement of yours. Please humble your heart to receive these words that I am going to speak. Lord I ask for the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation to be given even now, even right this moment.
When we build a foundation for any doctrine, teaching, or belief we have but ONE place to begin. Not to the words of Paul, not to the words of Peter, and not even to the words of John. But to the words of Jesus alone. “For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.” Because we know that His words will never pass away, though heaven and earth will, we can trust them.
If the apostle Paul had anything to say about this it would probably sound something like this, “I am concerned with the way many of you are using my letters improperly. They are the truth of the Holy Spirit and they are scripture. The Lord did give me great stones to set into the structure of His eternal church, but they are not foundation stones. The foundation stones were laid by Jesus alone. (“I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock.” Luke 6) My life and ministry are not the example of what you are called to be; Jesus alone is that.
If what I have written is used as a foundation, it will not be able to hold the weight of that which needs to be built upon it. What I have written must be built upon the only Foundation that can withstand what you are about to endure; it must NOT be used as the foundation. You must see my teachings through the Lord’s teachings, not try to understand Him from my perspective. His words are the foundation. I have only built upon them by elaborating on His words. The greatest wisdom and the most powerful truths are His words, not mine.”
The purest revelation my friend comes from the mouth of our Savior. We must build our beliefs upon His words first and then we will be able to understand the rest. I believe we will be here during every bit of the tribulation, and you do not. One of us is wrong. What does Jesus say about it? Not Paul, not Peter, not John, but what does Jesus say about it? Let’s take a look.
Perhaps Jesus most famous sermon is the Sermon on the Mount. It is also called the beatitudes. We have all heard it. What are the last three? How about persecution. “Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” That is not the only place He speaks of persecution. Lets look in John chapters 15 and 16.
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also…All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you.”
Now let us return to Matthew 24. “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Jesus promises us persecution. That is not to be confused with wrath. Wrath is a place called “the Lake of Fire.” We are not to fear what lies ahead. In fact we are commanded by the Lord, “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matt 10:28 You must understand that the Lord did not forget to tell us anything. But He has told us everything we need. In Matt 24 He does speak of His return. What does He say. Listen carefully…”IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE DISTRESS OF THOSE DAYS…’the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.” At no other point in His entire discourse does He speak of His return, although he does say over and over again about watching for false prophets and christs.
NOW we can look at Paul’s reference to the rapture in Thessalonians. I will not write it all out but I will just say this about it. He does not mention one thing about this event happening before the great tribulation. But then again, Jesus has already told us about that. One last thing and I am done. Jesus says that after the tribulation “the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give it’s light.” Isaiah speaks of something very similar in chapter 60, “For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and deep darkness the people…” There are actually many other numerous references to this darkness that Jesus talks about. (Acts 2:20, Amos 5:18-20, Zephaniah 1:15, Zechariah 14:6, Revelation 6:12, Rev 8:12, and Isaiah 24:23)
So what’s my point. Going back to Rev 22:16 Jesus wants us to know Him as “The Bright and Morning Star” because He will break through that darkness and rescue His bride. What lies ahead for the bride of Christ is not wrath, but what lies ahead will purify us so that we will be a pure and spotless bride ready for her husband, both Jew and Gentile as one man. Come, Lord, Come!!

The quotation above from the Apostle Paul is from a book by Rick Joyner called “The Final Quest.” Forgot to reference that and I’m not trying to take credit for what someone else wrote.

Shalom Texas,

Well said my brother, You are correct that Jesus’ words are the foundation. Peter, Paul, Matthew, Mark Luke and John all preached and wrote the same Gospel. The Gospel of Jesus Christ. This Gospel did not teach a pre trib rapture.

Shalom Tom,

Pleas read carefully his my Dec. 13th post .. .. All evidence in the holy scriptures point to only one thing. The 2nd coming and the rapture happen at the same time. I have long said that if one just compares Matt. 24 and 1st Thes. 4 one can see they are both talking about the same event. Christ in the clouds, trumpets, angels, gathering of the saints, and as Jesus says: “Immediately after the tribulation”
I ask , why did not Jesus plainly teach the rapture? Why did He bother to tell the 12 about the Tribulation in Matthew 24 and then omit the fact that they will be raptured out of there? Same thing goes for the Revelation of John. Makes no sense whatsoever. Give the Bible to any one who never heard of Darby’s Rapture and let them read it. They will tell you without fail when the gathering of the saints will be…. Immediately after the tribulation. The rapture was invented in 1830 in Scotland. A early charismatic named Margaret Mac Donald alledgedly saw some visions and by 1839 John Darby , an associate of hers, was writing and preaching both dispensationalism and the pre trib rapture. Prior to this and throughout the ages the post trib view was the only view. Now it seems that the pre trib view is more dominant in America but that does not make it right. Try to find a pre- tribber in China. They were taught the rapture by American Missionaries in the mid to late 1800’s. In the year 1900 the Boxers ( The Boxer Rebellion) killed , raped and tortured the Chinese Christians in an attempt to rid China of all Christians. They almost succeeded .The faith of most of these Chinese Christians melted in the face of persecution because they were taught that they would be raptured out of here. They had the tribulation but no rapture. Christianity all but died out in China except for a very few faithful. Since Mao & the Commies got control they also have been trying to wipe out the Chinese Christians . The small remnant of the faithful Church went underground and are post tribbers now. They don’t want to hear about avoiding tribulation now ,they welcome it. The more the persecution the bigger the Chinese Church grows, just like when Nero was trying to rid the Roman Empire of Christians by mass murder . Read the book “Heavenly Man” It reads just like the book of Acts. This is a true Church of Jesus Christ. Many of us sit here in America, fat and happy, unaware of the intense persecution of Christians elsewhere in the world. Then we have the nerve to believe we will not have tribulation while Israel suffers through it. We need to repent . America needs real revival like China . Humble yourselves America ,get on your knees!

There is danger in believing in a pre trib rapture. First we will not be ready for the persecution just as the Chinese were not ready. Second, The pre trib rapture spawns the belief that people will still have time to repent of their sin after the rapture . (IE: the so called “tribulation saints .”) This is not scriptural.. Jesus said there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth!

One last point…… In Acts Chapter 3 verses 20 and 21 Peter ,speaking of God says : “And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” Therefore Christ must remain in heaven until the times of restitution or restoration or the Second Coming. If Jesus comes back for a pre- trib rapture then this scripture is broken .Broken scripture is impossible therefore the pre-trib rapture is also impossible. Case closed.

Gird up your loins Brothers and Sisters!

Shalom, Jeremy

Dear Jeremy

I know it has taken me a long time to respond and I am sorry. In the words
of that song, “Life can be so busy at times…”

Thank you for your frequent postings and your faithful interaction with
readers on this blog. Yours is a steady and consistent voice that helps keep
things going without raising the temperature of others - a rare gift.

In response to what you ask pertaining to Zechariah 12 through 14
let me say this:

As I read through this section I also sense a kind of moving backwards and
forwards through time. It is clearly not a chronological presentation
(sometimes frustratingly little biblical prophecy is. Like you, I wish it
was all more “neatly” packaged.)

I know many scholars say that the words “in that day” apply to the coming of
the Lord, and indeed this often seems to be the case. There are also
references elsewhere to “the day of the Lord” that clearly speak about times
and seasons of judgment which while written prophetically, are historical
from our vantage point. When the phrase IS referring to the return of the
Lord it is, clearly, not speaking about a single 24-hour day but about a
period or season, if you like, during which things are being readied for His
coming as well as that coming itself. And then we also have to bear in mind
that “a day is to the Lord as a thousand years.” Which all means we very
much need the Spirit of truth to guide us into all truth as we read and
study. In the end, we all see “as through a glass dimly” and have to
acknowledge that as “certain” as we are, His ways and His thoughts are high
above ours.

Having said that…

As I read it, chapter 12 verses 1 through 9 addresses the nations coming
against Jerusalem; this divine defense of His city (and land?) will take
place “in that day.”

The rest of that chapter, together with the first 6 verses of chapter 13
seem to fit together, all speaking about the Messiah being revealed to His
people, the veil that has blinded them for so long finally being removed,
and their response to it. Again this will happen “in that day.” Verse 10 has
two sections, separated by the word “then.” Although it seems to say this
will all happen simultaneously, we should also allow for the possibility
that any amount of time could pass between the fulfillment of the first half
and that of the second. This passage actually says nothing about Jesus’
coming, only about His identity being revealed. Also note that
consecutively, it is “after” they “look on Him whom they have pierced” and
mourn for Him that a fountain of cleansing will be opened up for them to be
washed clean. It may well happen in that sequence; at the same time it seems
possible that the cleansing must come first because until it does what other
response could they have as still steeped in their sin than to run fleeing
to the hills?

Whatever the order of these aforementioned events, what follows next (Zech
13:7 through 14:2) clearly has to happen BEFORE. For surely the Lord is not
going to send massacre and pillaging upon His people AFTER they have
repented, mourned, and been washed clean by His Spirit and blood? So there
is a jumping back to the past.

Jesus heralded the beginning of the fulfillment of Zech 13:7 the night
before He died, when His followers forsook Him and fled. From the moment of
His arrest through the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus and Vespasian these
next verses come to pass. (7,8).

According to Josephus, two-thirds of the population in the Roman province of
Judea were killed by the Roman legionnaires as they moved from Caesarea, up
through the Galilee and Golan Heights, then down to Jerusalem and finally,
after its sacking, to Masada. The one third that remained, together with
their descendants, spent the next 2000 years passing through the fire of
persecution and “refinement.” Jerusalem remained in their hearts, however.
The best-known prayer of the Jew down the centuries was the Passover pledge,
“Next year in Jerusalem.”

In 14:3 we again have the word “then,” denoting that it is AFTER those
terrible events that the Lord will go forth and fight against the nations
that have aligned themselves against Jerusalem. I suggest to you that “then”
denotes a long passage of time and does not mean “immediately afterwards.”

From 14:3, then, we are talking about the Lord’s mighty moving to deliver
Israel from those who have gathered to destroy her. The verses paint an
apocalyptic scene, but its unfolding sees no destruction to Jerusalem nor
casualties inflicted in its inhabitants. Israel’s enemies flee through the
newly created valley, but Jerusalem will be filled with life as the healing
waters flow out from the city. All this happens, also “in that day.” But
then we jump back one last time to read about how God will physically
destroy the enemies and how the Jews themselves engage them in battle
(verses 12 through 15).

From verse 16 to the end of the book we read about what happens after the
destruction of those nations, with holiness restored to Jerusalem, all of it
happening also still “in that day.”

I hope this clarifies my understanding a little

Stan

The truth of God’s word is found in it’s harmony, it is easy to spot bad doctrines because they are not in harmony with all of scripture. typically false doctrines rely on “proof texts” and these proof texts are always at odds with other passages in scripture. but the people that hold to these doctrines either igonre these passages or twist them to reinterpret them to match their proof texts.

In the Psalms David tells us, “the SUM of your word is truth”. this is a truth overlooked or denied by many systems of eschatology. Dispensationalism being one. Dispensationalism relies on piecemeil interpretations of scripture and cannot survive scrutiny when ALL of God’s word is brought to bear on the doctrines it holds. that is how you get people that claim modern day israel is a fulfillment of prophecy. they will ignore the stipulations spelled out in the prophecies that govern the regathering of Israel and they ignore when their other doctrines contradict what they have already claimed.

Example: As Stan has insinuated the dispensationalist claims modern day israel is the fulfillment of prophecy and they will even post the passages that speak of israel being planted and not plucked up, and dwelling in safety. Then they will turn around and claim that Israel faces the greatest holocaust yet. Sometime in the near future Jerusalem will fall, the houses will be ransacked, the women raped and 2\3 of the in habitants of jerusalem will be killed or carried off into captivity. and they fail to see how this contradicts their doctrines of the modern state of Israel being the fulfillment of prophecy!

All the while we see Jewish people coming to the Messiah in faith. This is the true regathering spoken of in Scriptures. I say that because the New Testament says so (this regathering is not limited to the Jew but to all who will receive the promise in Christ). The prophets words of old are being fulfilled in the very fact that people are recieving Christ Jesus as Saviour and all of this is done in obiedience. If in obiedience, then in Christ. If in Christ, then in righteousness and if in righteousness, then in promise. If in promise, then in fulfilment. If in fulfillment, then in Christ. It cannot be any other way.

Deuteronomy commands that the the promises are maintained in obiedience. Isaiah teaches that it will be by coming to the Mighty God and Isaiah proclaims that the Mighty God is Christ Jesus. (Is. 10:21)
Isaiah 10:21 (NKJV)

21 The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob,
To the Mighty God.

Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)

6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Dispensationalism cannot survive the litmus test of being in harmony with the sum of God’s word.

Stan,

With all due respect to you, most of your interpretation of the Zechariah 13-14 passage seems to hang on the word “Then” at the start of Zechariah 14:3. It should be noted that this word does not even appear in the Hebrew text. Many translations of the bible start the verse with the word “And”. Does this affect your current thought process?

My opinion is that rather than look at a single word to infer some interpretation, one should read the entire passage and should compare other passages of scripture dealing with the same subject.

I myself have misunderstood many prophesies in the past (perhaps still misunderstand); partly because of erroneous doctrine that I was taught by other men, or because of my own lack of desire search the Word to understand, or because of YHWH himself blinding me. I pray for His revelation in my life, and I pray for the doctrines of men and the erroneous traditions of the so-called “church” to be purged from me.

I am not saying I have the “answer”. I am saying that YHWH is consistent. He does not change (Malachi 3:6). Therefore, we must look at how He has dealt in the past to understand how He will deal in the future. His character is beyond reproach. He is MOST HOLY. His Word will not be contradicted. {By the way, reading the entire chapter of Malachi 3 is recommended, for it is quite pertinent to this subject matter — “Return to Me, and I will return unto you”.}

The only hope we have in understanding anything about the “Last Day” is to read the entire Word from cover to cover…Genesis to Revelation…continuously. We cannot stop reading, with a heart to understand, lest we be deceived. And yet, we must understand that sometimes, YHWH Himself sends the deception to test us, to see whether our heart is truly His (Deut. 13:1-4, I Kings 22:19-23). So, we must stay in His Word, and we must stay faithful to Him and His ways.

To me, one of the most critical passages that we must understand is Leviticus 26 (the four fold seven times curses). After each curse is pronounced, the only recourse the people have to end the curses is REPENTANCE. The washing with “clean water” that is mentioned in Ezekiel 36:25 must be preceded by repentance. Why? It is because YHWH’s character requires it, as evidenced by many, many places elsewhere in Scripture. In this passage, YHWH does this to glorify His own Name, not the name of the people. This is evidence of His great love for His people. That He did not give up on them, just as when Moses pleaded for them in Exodus 32:9-14. In this passage, He also stated He would forgive to glorify His own Name. But what followed this? The people were still required to REPENT, and some did not. They died in their sin, as will many in that “Last Day”.

It is also imperative to examine the Messiah’s own words. What were His first words in His public ministry after the temptation? The same words of John the Baptist: “Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matt. 4:17). Also, consider His words in Matthew 7:13-23 (perhaps the most haunting words in all of scripture). “Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.” Therefore, we see that without true REPENTANCE, man is left in His sin.

In the love of Messiah,

Eric

Shalom Stan,
Thanks much brother Stan for your kind comments , Your interpretation Of Zec. 12-14 makes much more sense to me now in light of this clarification. It was well thought out and presented . Thank you. Although I have not read all of the writings of Josephus I do know , from bits that I have read, that he is a faithful historian. He is often cited by Bible scholars as one who indeed corroborates Biblical history. His testimony adds heavy weight to your interpretation. Let us hope and pray that it is indeed correct and as you noted….. NEXT YEAR IN JERUSALEM! God bless you and your family, and keep up the good work!

Shalom Jeremy

Stan,
Isn’t eschatology fun? I appreciate you expressing your views as well as your reluctance to do so. There can be a fine line between using iron for sharpening and using iron as a club!

What will it take for Israel to accept Jesus as Messiah?

I believe G-d will use a number of different things. The time of Jacob’s Trouble; the testimony of the Two Witnesses; the supernatural return of the Jews (greater than the first Exodus from Egypt); and the Provoking of Christian Zionists to mention a few. Genocidal destruction of Jews isn’t necessary from my point of view but the threat of it is certainly possible and the threat alone is enough to turn a heart toward heaven!

I also personally believe that the collective faith of the nation will rise in stages; much like the saving work the Holy Spirit performs on a sinner. I believe the Jews will return first to the faith of their fathers: the faith of Abraham (the righteousness that comes by faith); then, a great national conviction of sin will grip them as they look upon the One whom they pierced.., and “all Israel will be saved”!

God bless you and your family as you continue to be salt and light!